Josh Toole

EPISODE 8:  Josh Toole, Community & Country Connectedness for better Wellbeing @blackfitfitness

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Gamilaroi man Joshua ‘Thurston’ Toole, founder of BlackFit Fitness, grew up in Bourke, NSW (Barkjindi Country) with his family ties going back to Coonamble throughout the Castlereagh catchment of northwest NSW (Gamilaraay Country). He now lives in Dubbo (Wiradjuri Country).
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"HEALTH FOR ME IS EVERYTHING,
AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT’S ALL WE HAVE..." Josh Toole

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A young man and life-long learner, Josh has an undergraduate degree in Health Science with aims to become Physical Education Teacher (Secondary). Josh is also studying Personal Training and Nutrition.

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Josh has always had a love for health, fitness, and wellbeing. Being a First Nations man and wanting to play a role in "closing the gap", Josh started BlackFit Fitness nearly a decade ago. His passion helps expose Aboriginal children to opportunities to prioritise health and wellbeing.

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BlackFit runs school programs to help teach young Aboriginal children how to have a healthy lifestyle with cultural values, and also provides bush tucker recipes to cook for a healthy and more diverse, traditional food experience. 

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Disclaimer:  Sobah Life Podcasts may contain explicit content relating to social-emotional wellbeing concerns such as abuse, addiction, self-harm and suicide. If you are likely to be offended or triggered by the discussion of these topics we recommend you do not listen to our podcasts. Sobah Life is not intended to replace professional help.  If you have any concerns about your social and emotional wellbeing, you should consult your doctor or mental health practitioner.  If you are triggered by any of the content of our podcasts and need immediate assistance you can call Lifeline (13 11 14), Beyond Blue (1300 22 4636) or if you are a young person, Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800).  A further list of crisis hotlines can be reached at:
https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/mental-health-services-infographic
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Transcript

Clinton Schultz  0:00  
Yaama maliyaa. Welcome to Sobah Life, a podcast that delves into people's lived journeys from merely surviving through to thriving. We yarn with people from all walks of life, who have been rock bottom and have found the strength, courage and determination to pick themselves up and to keep on going. We'll hear their stories, share their laughs, and shed a few tears while learning a truckload about living along the way. The stories are raw, and real. Sobah Life is proudly brought to you by Sobah Beverages, Australia's first non-alcoholic craft beer company, and is hosted by me, Dr. Clinton Schultz, a Gamilaraay man and psychologist. If anything in these yarns triggers you, and you need immediate help, please ensure to yarn up, you can contact Lifeline, Beyond Blue, or if you're a young person, Headspace or Kids Helpline.

Clinton Schultz  0:00  

Yama Sobah mob, thank you for returning hope you've been enjoying the pod so far. This afternoon, I feel really fortunate to be having a yarn with Joshua Toole. And as everybody knows, these yarns are an opportunity for our guests to yarn up about their own journeys, the ups, the downs, what has worked, what hasn't worked. To show us who are listening in, have an opportunity to learn from each other, and hopefully, in some shape, or form, help positively shape our journeys moving forward. So I'm going to hand over to Josh to introduce yourself, bra.

Josh Toole  0:34  

Yeah, deadly. Thanks, brother, my name is Joshua Toole I'm a Gomeroi man from Western New South Wales. I just want to say thanks brother for having me on. You just gave me a quick rundown on the nature and the aims of these podcasts and these discussions. And I think it's, I think it's unreal what you're doing. So thanks so much for having me on. 

Clinton Schultz  0:57  

Absolutely pleasure, 

Josh Toole  0:58  

Also just want to pay quick respects to the land which I'm on today the Wiradjuri  nation, and to all those mob out there listening to wherever they are. Also respects to that nation, that country, those people.

Clinton Schultz  1:13  

Absolutely. So fill us in on a bit about yourself. So we heard as you just said, you Gomeroi, Gamilaraay Countryman with me. So we'll have a whole bunch of stuff in common as we go through this yarn. No doubt.

Josh Toole  1:27  

Yeah. Yeah. So all my mob the Thurston's, Dixon's. They're all from Western New South Wales, they tie into the Yuwaalaraay Gomeroi Nations. Wailwan nations also bit of connection there, I grew up out on Ngemba country out in Bourke, New South Wales. So out in the wild west, which was unreal.

Clinton Schultz  1:53  

 Out the back of Bourke. 

Josh Toole  1:54  

Yeah, that was good, it was a great upbringing. Saw some influential things out there, which sort of shaped me who I am today, sort of give me a bit of drive, but a passion and a bit of motivation as well, to what I'm doing at the moment. And that's trying to leave a positive social impact with the work that we do, adding community with our online presence as well. Just trying to get mob active, healthy, happy, and really conscious with our, with our spirit that we have as Aboriginal people and the connection that has with the things around us, the animals, the country, and our well being as a whole. So yeah, all about connecting back to culture, but having fun along the way, and keeping healthy

Clinton Schultz  2:45  

at steadily Mbarara I've had a good read through the website, and I've looked at a whole bunch of the blogs and the other stuff that just post and it's some really positive and deadly stuff that he's doing out there. And it's always great to see countrymen that are doing great stuff and, and remaining out in the bush, to be honest, you know, sometimes Western New South Wales, and western Queensland, you know, just gets forgotten about, we get a lot of spotlight a lot of the time on places like the cape and the territory and WA places in WA, but, you know, we got mobile throughout this country in some areas really struggle to get support and to get noticed. So

Josh Toole  3:25  

yes, absolutely. And I mean, being those small communities, there's not a lot of opportunities out there. Career-wise. So I guess, you know, there's a lot of draw towards those bigger cities. And, like you said, those things, those small towns out west to sort of get forgotten about. And sometimes, sometimes I do, obviously, I'm back out, doing what I can out in the community that I grew up and sort of have connections with. But like you said, most of times, it is forgotten about and those towns hold or all those young kids out there as well, that sort of face those, those results those outcomes of that neglect Ignis.

Clinton Schultz  4:11  

Yeah, for sure. One of the things that I noticed a lot when I go out to communities is that kids particularly get really focused on what they think they're missing out on, sometimes so much so that they lose sight of what they have. You know, when I get out in community, and I'm constantly trying to remind kids of the freedoms that they have being out in the bush and the openness, the connection that they have at their front door, and try and help them understand that city kids would freak and die for that.

Josh Toole  4:39  

Oh, absolutely. It's so hard to try and try and convey the importance or you know, how blessed they are out on country away from always fast life that a lot of Australians live and just the little Like you said that freedom and the impact that can have on yourself, mentally is is is so important. And like I said, it's not always I didn't Well, when I was out there growing up, I guess, as I got a little bit older and realized how important well-being is and how big it is have an impact out there. Then as on my well-being so much when I was older, so yeah, that's crazy. I was out in Bourke New South Wales the other day, on Friday. We did some sports to the pool there. But after that, I went out camping for two nights out on Mays bend, border of Myanmar and muddy water country. So I was out there, the river was up. It was just myself. camping out on bush and like, honestly, like I was in like a trance just been out. Just peaceful, just stillness. Peaceful. Just had no thoughts. No worries, no stress. It's it is really special. Yeah, absolutely.

Clinton Schultz  5:59  

It's one of the things I love most about getting out porches is that silence that you can find. You can't find that in the city. You can't find that in urban areas, because there's just too much chaos. You know, there's cars, sirens, trucks, helicopters. Yeah, just noise, constant noise. And then everybody's so become so absorbed and addicted to the noise that they create further noise. And that all just starts rattling around. 

Josh Toole  6:23  

It's crazy. Yeah, there's no, there's no sort of stop. When you see like in the city, I've, as I said, I've grown in Bourke. And I moved away to Sydney when I was about 14. And I lived in Sydney, Perth Brisbane. And it's just so crazy. It's just so fun. And we sometimes get so caught in that way of sort of, sort of be taken away from, from what's out in country where our roots are, and just how much of a positive impact that that has on us and also how much of a positive impact you can have by going out in that community. So it’s a two-edged sword. 

Clinton Schultz  7:05  

What was it like growing up in Bourke?

Josh Toole  7:07  

Yeah, it was all right. My mother, She was very, very supportive. She was a great mom, she, she told me great morals, great values, she made sure I was in line, she was a teacher. So she shoulda led me down that road of education. So I was blessed with a good house, a good roof over my head. But my neighbors, my cousins that they weren't so much. It's crazy. So it was like living in two worlds almost. You know, you've got your, your mob out there that have got strong culture and family strong, strong roofs over their head. And then you've got those mobs out there that come from really damaged, broken homes, when there's all you know, things like sexual abuse, sexual assaults, drug and alcohol. Now there's all these terrible things that are happening. And it's just two worlds. It's crazy. And like, you don't really notice it will notice the impacts of those things that are going on at home and till those people start to grow up. And you can really see the damage of that or the influence of that. Pour out whether it was positive or negative. And looking back now, you'd like you can really link or connect what's happened with where people are hat in their life. But it was a beautiful town. So it's a beautiful town. I love it. Like I always say I would raise my kids up out west and then send them away to school as I do just feel I believe growing up out west. You get a sense of humbleness to you a real sense of realness in the country. You can connect you know you are you've you know you sense that you get to experience that country life. That fun life. It's so fun growing up in the country you ride bikes, ride motorbikes out on the farm, Fishing, Campion out pigging and you do all these crazy things kids in the city want to do. You know, they would only dream of doing so yeah. I loved growing up in Bourke every time I go back it's, I always appreciate it a lot more out there full time but yeah, growing up in Bourke was unreal. The people are They're beautiful. Yeah, it's just you, you know, with every community you've got good and bad.

Clinton Schultz  9:53  

Yeah, really every community experiences problems. And that's just not our communities as First Nations more That's every community you know, you can go yes affluent suburb in Sydney, and there's still going to be some pretty hectic problems behind closed doors. Unfortunately, Australia doesn't like to talk about those issues and doesn't like to spotlight what goes on in, I guess, the backyard of the affluent parts of society. But we know that alcohol abuse is actually just as high amongst people living in the northern beaches of Sydney as it is in any of our communities. And yeah, we know that some of the largest pedophilia rings in the world are actually, you know, run from here in Australia, and they're not by First Nations people. I can tell you right now, so

Josh Toole  10:37  

yeah. And that's it. Like, I mean, a lot of things we were taught through colonization, so yeah, it is what it is, I guess. We're just at the moment with sort of healing I've, I feel we are on a road of healing, much more so than you know, 1015 years ago. So it is improving from where I stand, I guess. And what I see through my grandparents, my parents, myself and even the younger generation. But in saying that it's still it is still very much alive.

Clinton Schultz  11:20  

So you left Burke at 40 to go to Sydney. Hmm, what was that like? Going from literally, literally the back of the neck to the big smile.

Josh Toole  11:32  

It was a culture shock, like young black for from Burke, going to a boarding school. And the learning like four, maybe five Aboriginal students said, yep. And it was crazy. Like I was in summer detention every, every second week or every week, just because I was fighting with kids who are just racist, and just having a dig at me constantly. Like, they're never seen Aboriginal person before. So that was new for them as it was for me. But yeah, it was it was full on, like, just the whole, just the whole living structure, like study, the places we'll go into on weekend and stuff like that the kids always sort of jamming with they were from these high trust age families, you know, owns shares in like tobacco and shares in like, like, footy clubs in the city, like it was just flying was crazy. So I'm super major them now. But it was hard initially, going away from home, I guess, as aboriginal people. We need that sense of family constantly around us that support network. So that was hard. That aspect of it. It got better as it went on. Because there was an indigenous program that started up just before I went and I started about five Aboriginal kids matam left was about 6070. And just the whole, like, environment changed those kids that had more respect my understanding with or for Aboriginal people just because of our presence there in that school. So it was in debt, it was definitely experienced. And I do appreciate the education that I got from that school. So yeah, big time.

Clinton Schultz  13:33  

So I work with a lot of young fellows who come from remote communities and sent away for boarding school. For many people who are listening to this, they probably don't realize that in a lot of our quiet regional and remote areas, there's no school past grade 10. In some areas, it's grade eight. And so a lot of young people are having to leave their homes, their families, their communities quite young and go into these real foreign and structured environments, which as you just said, can be extremely challenging. What advice would you have any young fellows who may be listening to this and who are at boarding school and, and struggling or maybe going to boarding school soon.

Josh Toole  14:18  

It's going to be tough, still extremely tough even feel at times, like you can't do it. But you need to hang in. On the other side of the fence when you graduate life so much better, so much, so much easier. You leave school with an education like that you will never have got staying at home in their community. I went to school, my brother he went in same school but he left hitting stick it out. And he tells me every day that he wished he stayed, the schools need a good a or Aboriginal support network there for that to happen. I believe that's My strong belief you get a lot of ticked the box Aboriginal people in those roles in those press stage white boarding schools so yeah, for young followers that are going to these schools there needs to be that support network, but stick it out. Brothers and sisters, it is tough. Life's tough. But you'll be so much better off from just hanging in there.

Clinton Schultz  15:33  

What are some of the things that you did to maintain your connection to family to country to home while you're away?

Josh Toole  15:39  

Um, well, it's not like it's not like it is now. Like, I mean, it was just a phone call every now and then. Bourkes 12 hours from Sydney. Probably more. So. Yeah, it was a phone call and then having other Aboriginal kids there. They where from Brewarrina, Walgett, Dubbo that was the biggest connection and those bonds that I have with those, those boys, you know, they like my mob to me. And that's how these you're down there away from home in this new environment. And you do you just form you link up with those brothers or those sisters down there. And you know, you're connect you're one big, you're one big family with a sweater, the boarding schools, even the girls schools. We all the Aboriginal people knew each other, we used to go and hang out on the weekends and stuff like that. So you do have a bit of, you know, you do have that, that support in that sense. But like the world we live in today, we can jump on and zoom FaceTime straightaway. So you are still sort of connected in a sense. Through that way today to which I hope does make it easier for these young fellows go away to boarding school and away from family, country and culture.

Clinton Schultz  17:02  

Absolutely. And I think the more that we can help young fellows who are leaving to look for ways that they can maintain their connections, the more likely they are to be able to stick it out, as you said, and to get to that endpoint. When they get to they're empowered and then and they can make the decisions on what they want to do. You know, some might want to stay away and go to university or do some work for a while others may want to go home and look at how they apply what they've learned back home. 

Josh Toole  17:27  

100% and that's what happened in my year and throughout those months of school that I had, you know, we Aboriginal boys in my year that like they're back at home now doing whatever they're doing but they're back in community and loving and living the life they leave and go to boarding school doesn't mean that you're going to be gone forever you know you blink in boarding schools over like looking back at it now when that quick I wish I was still there sometimes. Be so it does go quick.

Clinton Schultz  18:04  

So you've you finished school down there? What did you go on to do post-school?

Josh Toole  18:10  

Like I said with mom, she gave me a bit of education where she planted an education seed with me I guess the young age being a teacher now principal, so she or mum gave me that scene and I went on to do PE teaching plan a bit of footy at the time. But I led more or lent more towards the safe option which was going to university getting my PE teaching degree so...

Clinton Schultz  18:39  

... deadly bruh, deadly... 

Josh Toole  18:41  

...Yeah, it was good. And again, after school, we had a house of those young falls from school. So we all stayed in the ones that stayed down in Sydney and went to university. We all got a house together and had that strong support network there too. So that was good.

Clinton Schultz  19:01  

What would you say some of the biggest challenges were for you through that journey. Going to university still staying away from home being a young adult.

Josh Toole  19:10  

Money Man money in Sydney is it's pretty scarce. Especially like you know, you go to uni, you work in a bad job. You're partying as well. So you spend the money as quick as you get it. So money was probably the hardest thing. living away from home supporting yourself. It's so it is so tough. Such for, for myself. I was never given a money, educated upbringing. There was no sort of financial investing discussions around the table which I think is important that we as aboriginal people have because our money management skills arent the greatest including myself, so 

Clinton Schultz  19:59  

I'm still I'm in my 40s I still struggle with managing money. that's my missus job...

Josh Toole  20:06  

is it hahaha, they are always better aren’t they? hahaha 

Clinton Schultz  20:10  

ah man, I always say to people, when you come from nothing, you're not scared of having nothing. So that I think makes financial literacy more difficult.

Josh Toole  20:19  

Yeah, that's true.

Clinton Schultz  20:21  

I'm quite happy to live in my swag out in the bush.

Josh Toole  20:24  

ah, me to brother, me too. 

Clinton Schultz  20:25  

I don't need all the all the things. So, I seem to have a lack of, I guess a lack of respect for finances and for having a I guess a nest egg and all these things we're told we should have because I'm just not afraid to live with nothing. 

Josh Toole  20:43  

Yeah, 

Clinton Schultz  20:44  

I don't think my wife and kids would appreciate it as much.

Josh Toole  20:47  

Yeah, I mean, like, Yeah, I'm the same. I could pack up, I could sell up everything tomorrow and go out west. But there's the other side of me too, that wants to be financially stable for myself and then for my kids and family as well. So that's living in two worlds, I guess that we're, you know, we never had no money as aboriginal as aboriginal people. There was no sort of financial commodity, apart from trade, and even then, it had no restraints on us like money does today. So it's always that battle of two worlds with us aye?

Clinton Schultz  21:26  

Absolutely. So you've ended up back out in Dubbo? 

Josh Toole  21:30  

Yeah, yeahp...

Clinton Schultz  21:31  

you've gone from Bourke to the big smoke and traveled around a few other cities and ended up back in Dubbo. What, what led to that?

Josh Toole  21:38  

oh, it was a calling to home brother, calling to country. And obviously, Blackfit as well, a lot of the work that we do is for communities and more about this way. It's, I mean, we can get to do what we do anywhere in Australia, but if I'm teaching culture, I want to be teaching culture or my country. Just for that, just to be safe, just to be confident. And not have you know, I don't want to be teaching Gomeroi language on Bundjalung language or over on Noongar country. So there's that aspect to it as well. Or, like, I'm happy now. I'm confident in myself as a cultural Aboriginal man to see permission to do certain things on other people's country. Definitely not language and stuff like that. But like cultural practices. I'm happy to do but yeah, it was just been about being back out here giving back to my community, my family as well. I want to see their lives or their quality of life improve in those remote rural communities. So yeah, and it's easy living out bro its so much easier than the city a country life is for me.

Clinton Schultz  23:04  

As I've said earlier, I'm much more happy in the bush than I am in town and fortunate where I live on the Gold Coast that I live out in Tallebudgera Valley so I've got the best of both worlds...

Josh Toole  23:13  

...ooooh, beautiful spot... 

Clinton Schultz  23:14  

I live in. I live out in the country, literally. But I'm 10 minutes from the beach. So

Josh Toole  23:19  

yeah, that's an that's the way I live to mom lives up in Ballina. And we come up there for Christmas in holidays and stuff, and I do some work up there. And in that area, like it's so easy to get away and just be on country, but then come back, and, you know, half an hour driving you back into like a big city kind of thing.

Clinton Schultz  23:41  

This is the longest in a long time that I haven't actually been on country, but good old border closures have stopped me from 

Josh Toole  23:47  

oooo, its been, its been a nightmare. 

Clinton Schultz  23:48  

...couldn't even get to  Goondiwindi. I tried driving to Goondiwindi few weeks back and it just happened to be I was about half an hour outta Gundy and it came on the radio that was the COVID out break in  Gundy and mob that I was doing some work for in Toowoomba rang me up and said, I hope you're not going to Gundy. So I had to turn around. So, I didn't even make it to onto the proper country.

Josh Toole  24:13  

In that sense, I've been lucky. So I've been out here on country and you know, you drive an hour out of where I'm living and you're on the banks of the river. So even during COVID I was lucky enough to get away. Go out and go camping if I needed to. And just have that peace of mind that stillness through that. That mental draining time of COVID and being locked down being able not to do what we normally do. So being out here able to do that as help big time through that through that period.

Clinton Schultz  24:48  

For a lot of people who are listening they may not have an understanding of what connection to country actually is like for us what's connection and country like for you?

Josh Toole  24:59  

For me, it's all about my spirit. It's all about my well-being. It's all about me looking after, protecting and giving back. Making life on country better for my people, for the animals out there, it's just that, it's that deep understanding to, being out on country by yourself that feeling of home or belonging, you know. One with your surroundings it's undescribable for myself been out there on country but some I was out on Bourke but I was off country but I spent 15 years of my life there so I had some connection to that Ngemba region and I was out there just connecting and just feeling everything that was around me just the energy that's around when you're out on country and you know, you have your DNA is from that country, your bloods from that country. It's it's such a special experience.

Clinton Schultz  26:10  

The last two years have been really challenging for everybody. But there's been a lot of spotlight on I guess the cities and the impact that this whole pandemic has had on people's well-being in the cities being out in the west and being out on country there. What impacts have you seen the last couple of years has on people's well-being?

Josh Toole  26:31  

Through COVID? 

Clinton Schultz  26:32  

Yeah

Josh Toole  26:33  

Yeah, like add here, well out in the country, let’s just say Campbel for example. I've got mob that'll you know, over living in houses. You know, kids in care, stuff like that. And it's, you know, to walk five kids plus an uncle and mother and father in one room or in one house, takes its toll-like I live in a two-bedroom house and I was going mental. I had all the space, I had more space than them. You know, and I was going crazy. I couldn't imagine what would have been like for big families like that, that are that overcrowded all over, over spaced in those houses. So that's one aspect that would have impacted a lot of remote rural communities. Another one too man is that we do cook-ups, we put out of Bourke. I know to go down to our uncle’s houses, and he's got a feed on right or wrong. And like, there's like five people up there every night just havin a feed. So we weren't allowed to go do those things we couldn't go catch up. It's all about doing things in groups, for our Aboriginal people, you know, on a community level is you know, hanging out on the weekend, going fishing, doing well being social orientated activities were just basically taken away. And told to be you know, stay in this or in, in your yard, in your house and not go anywhere. For people that already have all these mental things going on, wouldn't say issues, but like things that are already going on. With people at home. They be alcohol-related issues, the list goes on COVID was not good. Or COVID was not good, The lockdown was not good for Aboriginal people. Understandably, even out in Wilcannia bruh, did you hear what happened out there? They’re out there, same as mob out in Bourke like they go out, I know mob that go out and catch kangaroos, emus. And, and that's their main source of food for themselves, for their family and they were restricted from that. And these are mob feeding big families feeding a lot of mouths, they can't go and you know, spend 250 bucks at the supermarket. We're told to go and do that. So that aspect as well was a hard one for more out west.

Clinton Schultz  29:24  

Yeah, the stuff at Wilcannia was shocking. And so was some of the, I guess some of the racial stuff that was happening around that. So some of the deficit discourse that was occurring around Wilcannia or from Wilcannia you know, the signs that were getting put up trying to deter people from going into help and stuff like that was... 

Josh Toole  29:47  

...yeah...

Clinton Schultz  29:47  

I would of hoped as Australian society we'd got well and truly past that, but it really highlighted in many sense, we we've still got a long way to go.

Josh Toole  29:57  

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I guess it's a lot of it's hidden out in road, well behind closed doors, until you jump online or events like that happen. And you can see the true colors of people through panic or through lab segregation or through dividing people. You can really as we saw,so.. 

Clinton Schultz  30:26  

It's almost like we need another freedom rides to travel out there and spotlight again for Australia, just how bad some of the discriminatory mindsets and practices still are, because I don't think people in the cities get it. You know, I think people in the cities have come quite away. But I just, 

Josh Toole  30:45  

Yeah... it’s just...

Clinton Schultz  30:45  

I just don’t think they can understand how bad it can be in some of the rural areas.

Josh Toole  30:50  

It is and it's full-on and there's like, there's so much going on out in community that city people have no idea about some, some mob in Sydney do now about it, but a lot of people just say stuff through social media, some of the mob in Sydney, haven’t even been out in these communities. So it's, there's a lot happening, if people knew or experienced, or lived, or even saw some of these things that are happening out in these communities. You know, they'll be doing a lot more protesting. 

Clinton Schultz  31:29  

We'd hope so. 

Josh Toole  31:32  

And things like that, because, yeah, it's crazy. It's, sad, actually, it's, it is sad.

Clinton Schultz  31:40  

It's a common scenario that we get though, like both the areas where you grew up and where you now live. So Bourke and Dubbo have received so much negative media attention over the years. For the concerns and the issues and the problems as we said earlier that every community in every part of Australia actually has but those two towns have received so much deficit discourse over the last 5,10 long years even...

Josh Toole  32:11  

Yes, it's the media bruh, the media is good for no one.

Clinton Schultz  32:13  

What impact do you think that has on people's well-being when all they see and all they hear about themselves and the towns they live in is fucking negative?

Josh Toole  32:22  

Well, if you're told you can't fly from young age you're never ever going to try are you? so like it just makes it hard for like mob out West doing these types of programs. Like I know mob in you know, out, out west that are doing such good things and like sort of turning these communities around or turning this mindset around and then stuff like that happens and like you, and all you have to do is jump on Facebook and see the real of people and I don't. I don't I like the amount of times I've written like a big paragraph to people on these on these comment threads so it's just the way the side but...

Clinton Schultz  33:05  

... yeah... 

Josh Toole  33:06  

You've got all these mob doing all these great things out in community black and white people all walks of life and they're out there busting their back trying to change the narrative that the media writes and the media chuck's these harmful, inflicting stories or, you know, bait, they bait people.

Clinton Schultz  33:28  

Absolutely

Josh Toole  33:29  

 They bait people and it just cuts these people out of these communities that are doing the work just cuts them at the legs.

Clinton Schultz  33:35  

And they do it without any thought going into the impact that it actually has on those who live in those areas who actually are exposed to the same media material.

Josh Toole  33:46  

They post these controversial events or things that happen or confrontations online because it gains traction, it games all these people want to jump on have their two cents and you got mob fighting back saying you don't understand that. Like you're only looking at the symptom shop, not diving deeper. And you've got all these people on-going commenting. And it's just generating revenue for these media outlets. And that's what they do you only have to look like channel seven is probably the worst one. But like you got all these ones are just posted like these rubbish stories rubbish journaling, and because of what it's poking at, you get all these people and it just generates and its yeah...

Clinton Schultz  34:34  

unless you're watching NITV or ABC, you're unlikely to see a positive news story about a blackfella coming from Bourke or Dubbo. I'll tell you right now.

Josh Toole  34:41  

Oh man you want, 100% Like you won't even hear. Yeah. On those...

Clinton Schultz  34:46  

...Blackfella anywhere in the country to be honest outside of sport.

Josh Toole  34:49  

No way in the world. 

Clinton Schultz  34:51  

Yeah. And people who aren't... who aren't exposed to that aren't the I guess the subject of all that deficit discourse. I don't think they can ever truly understand just how influential it is on people's well-being. You know, in psychology you're taught from day one about self-fulfilling prophecy that if you say something, suggest something to somebody enough times they will eventually become that. But nobody seems to take that lesson on when they broadcast all this negativity in this deficit discourse constantly about us as First Nations peoples. They wonder why people may end up negatively coping and may end up presenting with a whole range of social-emotional well-being disturbances without ever considering the part that majority society has played in that through the constant broadcasting of negative bullshit.

Josh Toole  35:42  

Yeah, it's we've been told for, well since colonization, you know, that we’re nothing. That we’re Flora and Fauna we're and we're still being told these things were like, we're still told at a young age. We've been taught not to believe in ourselves as aboriginal people we've been told. We've been told a narrative that we believe in, through generational racism and it is racism, we're being told we are nothing basically and...

Clinton Schultz  36:16  

...And taught to be shamed about ourselves. 

Josh Toole  36:18  

...And that... Yeah, and that like these thought processes that we have are ingrained, genetically generational the way that we think about ourselves are passed on.

Clinton Schultz  36:32  

Absolutely epic, we can clearly see that in the fields of epigenetics these days, we've always yarned about it as mob. Finally, the science world has caught up to what we've always been telling them that we encode this stuff at a molecular level. It's encoded in every cell in our body. And it's then given to our kids.

Josh Toole  36:50  

Yeah and unconsciously, like if you, you know, we bury what we hear or what we absorb. We're like sponges, our brains are like a sponge and like we never, like things never go unused or absorbed. So like we bury that deep and it does have an impact, it does have an impact on our health, physically on a cellular level. It's crazy how in touch the Aboriginal healers with well-being and health on a cellular level, just through affirmations, just through troubleshooting illness, through lifestyle, behaviors, stress, things like that, It's unreal. And hopefully, we can come back to that. I mean, we are road recovery, no doubt, we've got a long way to go for sure. But umm...

Clinton Schultz  37:50  

It took 230 years to create this message, it's not going to clean up overnight. We need time to heal...

Josh Toole  37:54  

No, and I said...

Clinton Schultz  37:56  

We need time to heal...

Josh Toole  37:57  

People always ask me when they say "well, how are you gonna fix this?" and I said "It's taken over 200years to create this problem, it's gonna take at least that to rectify it, it's not gonna happen. Just because we were doing this program down in the local park on a Friday night."

Clinton Schultz  38:12  

But, you are playing your part. Because every time we can create a new positive experience that helps to start changing that genetic memory. So if we can encode more positive experiences, which lead to more positive lessons through that sensory experience. We know that that can start to shift and shape people's well-being into the future and intergenerationally. So you are paying playing your part in that brother. And that's, that's awesome to see. And the more of it we actually get, the better it is. So tell us how, you know when things do become quite overwhelming living out there in regional areas where there's not much service provision, there's not much opportunity for you know, it's not like you can just go up the road and see the counselor. It's not like you've just got open access to go and to go to yoga or to get you know, all the things we take advantage of here to manage well-being. What do you do to help manage your well-being?

Josh Toole  39:10  

Umm... Time alone for me, is a big one. I always if I'm pressured or stressed or emotional, I always jump to isolation and that's not always a good thing. But that's what I do. And looking after my well-being self-care, I like to be alone. So I've got no influence from anyone. Like I'm making decisions based on myself. I'm not having anyone say "Oh, hey we should do this or we should do that." It's just me in my own space. And generally, culture. Cultures, massive in that space. So going out to country like I did on Friday night go camping like, that what I experienced on Friday night would have been like six months counseling it was just like, out..., it's just, it's just mate, ooh yea, it's crazy... I was just in a trance just sitting there, not thinking about a thing not having a care in the world. And, you can just feel the impact that that has on your body, like physically, like your body's relaxed, your heart steady. Your breath is nice and slow, nice and deep. Everything's just still present and alive. It's unreal.

Clinton Schultz  40:30  

And it's an experience that I think many people in an urban settings and particularly cities...

Josh Toole  40:34  

...they miss out.... 

Clinton Schultz  40:35  

They miss out, but they also they'll pay 1000s and 1000s of dollars to try and achieve.

Josh Toole  40:45  

Well their you go bruh it's a new business? Retreat... I've always, I've always wanted to get like a little retreat going because I post a lot of stuff on social media, we've got people out, like, when I was at Bush in Bourke, on Friday, I went through and it's got like, heaps of bushtucker the moments the rains been unreal...

Clinton Schultz  41:05  

...Yeah, I've seen some of those posts, it was I was extremely jealous.

Josh Toole  41:10  

And everyone's messaging me saying, "oh, you should do like you should take people out" and all this sort of stuff, which I am. You know like they're all in the city. It's crazy. It's crazy. The world that we have out here. It's just crazy. Like the different worlds that we all live whether we're from the country and we're living in the city, and they have this connection that country or the from the city and have no connection that's it's there's so many different identities with country, whether or the city as Aboriginal people and as Australians as well, like, if you're in the city, you can just drive five hours out of the city, which for me is not a long drive because I do a lot of driving but someone from the city it might be, but when they get out here, it's a whole different world.

Clinton Schultz  42:01  

And I think you're right, I think that is an immense opportunity for economic engagement for mob out in regional areas in the spaces of eco-tourism, and in the spaces of health and healing. 

Josh Toole  42:13  

YEAH

Clinton Schultz  42:14  

Because we've been doing this, we've been doing this shit for 100,000 plus years, nobody knows it like we do.

Josh Toole  42:20  

Well, that's what I mean. our well-being was unreal, the way we used our mind. Especially our magic people. The way we conveyed things with our mind was unreal. So just the we say "winning gang gala will Bama" which is a reflection of a person's self in time, which is what I experienced on Friday, just sitting down and just having like just I was like, it was a nice vibration going through my body. I was in a good state. And that's what it is. It's been away from everything. Like you go, you pick anyone up from the city or from even in Dubbo, you take them out and you put em on a river by themself. No one, you know within 100 clicks.

Clinton Schultz  43:16  

Tapping into that essence of "Durham, Byron golly," that essence of nature, that essence of just what is.

Josh Toole  43:23  

 Yeah, that's who we are burh. Like, that's who we are. We are country, we are things around us. We are the animal so, being close to that and being one with that with no interference. You know, none of phones, social media. So, yeah, that's what it is. It's all about country.

Clinton Schultz  43:45  

Sounds deadly my bra and I'm definitely jelly. I spit you know, people don't get it. I complain about being stuck on the Gold Coast and people go, you spoiled little brat, like you're stuck on the Gold Coast poor you, but they just don't get how much I miss being in that silence. Being in that place where it's only when you get to that space of silence, I think that you can actually start engaging and you know you in your own dreaming your own creation. It's hard to do that when you're in the city. And I think it's really hard for young people to be able to dream their futures when they're surrounded by so much noise. But once you're out in that silence, your mind just can open up and you can really start to process you know, who am I? What am I connected to? What are my roles and responsibilities? how can I fulfill those roles and responsibilities? which gives you a pretty damn solid grounding and purpose.

Josh Toole  44:38  

It does and you look a lot of our trials that we go through as indigenous people like through, like from, adolescence to childhood. There's a lot of there's a lot of time of being alone. Being alone for that process to happen.

Clinton Schultz  45:01  

Being in silence, learning to be at peace with silence, something that the West does not understand, you know, Westernised Australian culture...

Josh Toole  45:11  

...An that’s what it is, it's that Western world. And it's always gonna be that it's always gonna be that West vs Eastern, which is a shame. 

Clinton Schultz  45:18  

You're probably like me, I can sit out in the bush and not say a word and not have a word said to me for days on end, and I'm very happy with that.

Josh Toole  45:26  

I would live to about 100 if I did that bra... hahaha....  the well-being out there just how as it's just the impact it has on your body physically, like you look at yourself when you are stressed. You know, when you're crying from whatever from like emotional situation. griefs, another one? Anxiety. Look what happens your body like it impacts your body, whether it's your heart rates when you're breathing, you're flexing your muscles that's all damaging to your body like it has stress has impact on your body physically. So being out there and being in that relaxed state. Yeah, it's crazy. 

Clinton Schultz  46:12  

Stress is literally the only common symptom to every chronic physical and chronic mental health. Stress is the only common factor. 

Josh Toole  46:26  

Well we would of had stress, but we didn't have a lot of the world we live today. Money bills, job, all this social media, online race, like all this, all this crap. Look at it.

Clinton Schultz  46:40  

None of it’s real.

Josh Toole  46:42  

Yes, if you could, yeah,

Clinton Schultz  46:43  

none of it's needed.

Josh Toole  46:45  

 If you can disconnect from that you'll be a very happy person.

Clinton Schultz  46:49  

So you're doing awesome work, as we alluded to before out there on country. Tell us a bit about what you're doing.

Josh Toole  46:56  

Yeah, so just out hear trying to impact socially, with communities out in western New South Wales, but we do stuff all over the states. I like to connect with other mobs on different countries. We run cultural programs, well-being programs, healthy lifestyle programs. So it's all about giving opportunity to mob to practice their culture, a healthy lifestyle and a positive wellbeing. So you know like we do, like opportunity. For example, we're doing a boot community drop at the moment we've done Brewarrina, Bourke, Coonamble,  Wilcannia's next on the list. Just as is about giving mob out there opportunity brother. There's not a lot of it out there. Like when I was out doing these fitness activities and stuff like that, at schools and on the weekends and stuff like that kids rock out to these clinics with no boots and stuff like that. And I was thinking everyone throws their boots, like I'll throw boots away that probably another six to 12 months in them, I said let's get something going and just give these kids opportunity. So opportunity from like, things like that education and cooking and hygiene. A big killer for our mob is obviously our health that's hugely linked to the food that we've been that's been forced upon us and the addictions that we have through food. So that's big, that's a big one for me as well try and bring out...

Clinton Schultz  48:28  

That white powder mate that's the most poisonous substance on this freakin planet

Josh Toole  48:32  

100%

Clinton Schultz  48:34  

We're talking sugar here people we're not talking anything illicit

Josh Toole  48:37  

and bra and like even with myself like I'm an emotional eater so when I went when I'm in the dumps lookout food because I just go to town and yeah, it's but I mean it's not a bad thing like I don't like to get down I've come to a point where being stressed out anxious doubting myself just been in my own head, head noise is so much worse than having a cupcake or having a pie for your physical health. So that being said I know people on a budgets foods expensive as hell out west don't get down about that type stuff. Everyone's gotta eat.

Clinton Schultz  49:23  

Cupcake here and there is alright, but two liters of soft drink a day probably is taking things too far.

Josh Toole  49:29  

haha, Bruh out in Bourke a backsplash it is delicious. It is to die for but it's sugar-coated...

Clinton Schultz  49:38  

You'd know this very well, soft drinks cheaper than fucking water. 

Josh Toole  49:42  

Yeah...  

Clinton Schultz  49:43  

So, of course, you're gonna go for the soft drink, it tastes better.

Josh Toole  49:45  

I remember water out in Bourke was like close to five bucks, I almost, alsmost throw it back at them I was thinking far out... but yeah,  that's the way it is out West. Shouldn't be but

Clinton Schultz  49:59  

It's like that in the majority of our regional and remote areas, unfortunately, the food security is ridiculously low. And there's a lot of work that governments can do working with communities to improve access to healthy foods. 

Josh Toole  50:17  

Yeah. Like if we, if things didn't happen the way they did, and we were able to live off the land with the more knowledge that we had, there would be no supermarkets out West that’s for sure... 

Clinton Schultz  50:31  

Absolutely, absolutely... 

Josh Toole  50:33  

which again that doesn't make money. So why would they ever allow that to happen? 

Clinton Schultz  50:36  

Can't commodify it?

Josh Toole  50:38  

Exactly right. 

Clinton Schultz  50:39  

Well, how can people get in touch with you?

Josh Toole  50:42  

Well, they can hit us up on, we are big on social media, we're always active at doing things like that. So @Black fit fitness, @BlackFitFitness on Instagram, Facebook @Black Fit fitness. They're sort of our two handles, we have a website It's just BlackFit.com.au and email admin@Blackfit.com.au. You can catch me on any of those for anything.

Clinton Schultz  51:11  

Yeah all good bra, I'm looking forward to coming down when these borders open up I want to get...

Josh Toole  51:15  

Brother if you ever get out this way, let me know. And that's mob to if mob every out this way out this way, West New South Wales and they want to get away for a weekend and have a chance to feel what we spoke about. Let me know because everyone needs it.

Clinton Schultz  51:31  

any excuse to get out bush to aye. haha

Josh Toole  51:34  

haha, any chance, any chance.

Clinton Schultz  51:38  

What's the closing message you'd like to leave with our listeners today?

Josh Toole  51:41  

One that I leave with everyone when I do podcasts and that's just take it easy on yourself. Life's a journey. Everyone's gonna fall I fall, I still fail, I'm still dealing with addictions, poor choices, bad habits. But I'm learning every time that I relapse and do these things. And that's what I think's most important that, that we are learning from these falls and these fails and these falls and fails are forward not backward. So we're not going back and doing the same thing. We're falling forward. And then once you reach that trigger point, again, we've sort of learned a little bit about it to maybe not do it again. But it is a journey. If you do fall, if you do fail, if you hit some bumps. Don't be so down on yourself. It's a long process and you've got to be kind to yourself.

Clinton Schultz  52:37  

beautifully put brother and  Gaba nindu, thank you for sharing with us. And it's been an absolute pleasure. Getting to have yarn with you this afternoon. 

Josh Toole  52:46  

Thanks so much for having me on Brian. I really I really appreciate it. I'm looking forward to seeing how you edit it as you said, you put it up with the dreaming stuff. So this Yeah, it'll be cool. I haven't heard one like this before. So thank you for having me on.

Clinton Schultz  53:01  

An absolute pleasure, bra. Thanks very much and enjoy your holidays.

Josh Toole  53:04  

Cheers brother, you to. 

Clinton Schultz  53:05  

Gaba nindu

Clinton Schultz  53:05  

Josh’s story reminds me of the learning cycle of one of our most prominent animals and totems as Gamilaraay. The wedge-tail eagle.  One of the names this majestic bird has is Maliyan.  These birds grow to be our largest bird of prey in Australia.  They mate for life, are super territorial and uber protective of their chicks.  When fully grown they will tackle prey as large as a small goat and can soar over 2km high in the sky but they don’t start life this strong.  We can learn a ton from these majestic birds if we allow ourselves too. Maliyan remains in the nest for about three months before leaving. While in the nest their parents provide for them, protect them and educate them on everything they need to know to survive in the bigger world.  If the chicks don’t learn they simply won’t survive. Attention and effort is required by both the chick and the parent bird.  If the chick doesn’t build its strength, resilience and learn to fly before trying to leave the nest. It will fall to the ground and become prey for a hungry goanna or Dingo.   If they are not taught to fly, they stand know chance.  If they are guided and learn, they will go out confidently to find territory and opportunities of their own.  The parent birds will often push the chick out of the nest when they feel the chick is ready to continue its learning journey. When encourages, the chick finds it much easier to spread its wings and fly.  If the chick finds greater opportunities elsewhere, they may never return to their birth grounds.  Sometimes they return just to visit family and country.  Sometimes they return home many years after leaving the nest stronger and smarter than when they left and continue the legacy of their parents on country and have chicks their own. Sometimes young people aren’t afforded the opportunities to positively thrive at home, on country.  Sometimes they need to fly the nest to build their knowledge, skills, experiences.  It can be difficult for parents to see their children “leave the nest” but if we remind ourselves that our children may have better opportunities to grow, learn and thrive outside of the nest then it can help us feel more comfortable with the process.  If we show positive encouragement towards our children with regards to spreading their wings and continuing their journey they will feel much more confident in taking flight.  Sometimes our kids will come home to live, sometimes they won’t, they may choose to stay where they find new opportunities for love, personal or professional growth.  Either way, they remain connected to country through spirit and have helped continue our ongoing existence in their own unique ways. 

Clinton Schultz  53:05  

Gaba nindu